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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Brandon B wrote: | | Perhaps Sony doesn't like the thought of their unprotected DSD stream being outside the box |
But the DSD stream is thoroughly protected. It was on i.Link – with DTCP – and it is on HDMI – with HDCP. By the way, the PCM stream is protected precisely the same for sure. |
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Jens
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: DTS-HD Master Audio output -- plus TrueHD, DD+ and DSD |
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| The Seventh Taylor wrote: | [...] it might explain the situation for the new lossless standards Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, which were first supported in HDMI v1.3 but not DSD which was supported from v1.2 already.
The only format I'm not sure about (which HDMI version you need for) is Dolby Digital Plus. |
Dolby Digital Plus requires HDMI v1.3, according to a Dolby brochure I've got. DD+ and DTS-HD are quite comparable, I guess. |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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How about the following theory?
- All high-resolution audio formats are converted to PCM because that's what the DACs can handle. DSD DACs are more expensive.
- Providing DSD, DD+, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD might be possible technically but would disable analog stereo output (due to hardware constraints).
- Sony is afraid of service calls from annoyed consumers who don't get analog audio output due to 'faulty' settings. Understandably, because such calls are expensive to handle. What's more, people might return their consoles to the store -- even more expensive to handle.
Sounds plausible? |
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mjponder
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: DTS-HD Master Audio output -- plus TrueHD, DD+ and DSD |
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I have been skimming through the posts on ths topic and I haven't quite found an answer to this question. If I have a PS3 and an a receiver with HDMI inputs that supports Dolby True HD and DTS HD and I connect the 2 with and HDMI cable am I going to get discrete surround channeling?
Thanks
Mark |
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PS3SACD
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Re: DTS-HD Master Audio output -- plus TrueHD, DD+ and DSD |
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| mjponder wrote: | | If I have a PS3 and an a receiver with HDMI inputs that supports Dolby True HD and DTS HD and I connect the 2 with and HDMI cable am I going to get discrete surround channeling? |
Yes, you should -- as long as the source material is discrete surround, of course. |
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Brandon B
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| With the addendum that it doesn't matter if his receiver supports True HD and DTSHD, as the PS3 will convert them to multichannel PCM before sending them. It does not output bitstream o fthose formats. |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently the decision not to let PlayStation3 output DSD via HDMI is not a general Sony policy issue, considering Sony has finally introduced an SACD player with this feature -- the SCD-XA5400ES, reported on the home page.
It makes one wonder once more what the real reason can be. Technical limitations? That seems so illogical.
1) Unprocessed, transparent DSD throughput should be far easier than conversion to PCM;
2) DSD output was defined already in HDMI v1.2, whereas PS3's HDMI output is v1.3-compliant. |
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gooberus
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| krzysop1 wrote: | I am NOT a an A/V expert but from my understanding of the terms lossy and lossless we are talking about sample rate frequencies which make the digital sound as close to original as possible. This is because as the signal needs to be of an exceptionally high frequency in a digital format. The lower the frequency the more the loss. HOWEVER..... this issue is not without debate BECAUSE..... the human ear cannot hear above a 44 Khz level on average. So what if you can reproduce at 192Khz/24 bit? You do get a C L E A N E R sound but not much more to the ear because your hearing won't absorb the highest frequencies. Your dog might smile though. It also sounds fuller because the bitrate is much higher in HD. However to remind us all, 44 Khz/16 bit has been CD quality for years and everyone seemed to like it. Now we can use CD's (DVD's) of greater density and export sound in 192 Khz/24 bit chunks. But will it make a great difference? Debatable. I for one am not going to run out and spend $900 on a new AVR just to tickle my ears. My budget RX-V361 is fine. It WOULD be nice however if SONY made some sort of cable from the normal A/V jack on my receiver with six discrete plugs to put in my receiver analog ext. jacks . I could them handle the 5.1 PCM and get HD. At present I only have the option via optical (my AVR does not have HDMI). Anyway that "terrible lossy" DTS-Core at 768 Kpbs still sounds great to my ears.  |
I hear you krzysop1. I have PS3 and an older rotel that does not have HDMI, which meant that lossy audio via optical was my only option. However I found a hdmi audio extractor device which takes the hdmi signal and outputs the audio to 5.1 or 7.1 analog signals. It works great in that I can enjoy all the lossless codecs without having to upgrade my rotel which I love. Try searching ebay or audiogon.com if you are interested. |
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gooberus
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Re: DTS-HD Master Audio output -- plus TrueHD, DD+ and DSD |
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| Brandon B wrote: | | The HDMI chipset in the PS3 is an early version of a more widely used 1.3 chipset that can do bitstreaming, but no one has been able to point to a spec sheet that this PS3 version does, and the mfr is not talking. So the consensus, even among many pro PS3 people, is that this was an early version of the 1.3 chipset that may lack the full set of features of 1.3, including bitstreaming capabilities of the high rez audio formats like DSD, TrueHD, and DTS-MA. |
I've been looking into this a little deeper, and found that it's the Silicon Image VastLane Si9132 HDMI transmitter we're talking about (even though the press release suggests a Si9133), which may be incapable of streaming high-bitrate audio formats like Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. At least that's what all the forum discussion assert. DSD is mentioned nowhere, however.
The discussion also suggest the Si9132 was custom-made for PlayStation3, yet an overview of Silicon Images' products simply lists it as designed for games consoles in general.
I'll keep on digging. |
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PS3SACD
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Just to update this discussion: In PS3 Slim, the the Si9132 HDMI chip's been replaced by something that does support Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio output.
See http://www.ps3sacd.com/index.html#_20090819_2 |
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