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Avatar: like Halo or like WoW?

 
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Yuri



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Avatar: like Halo or like WoW? Reply with quote

I've played World of Warcraft only very briefly but my sister, who has several characters at level 80, told me Pandora in the Avatar movie looks just like WoW and that in fact you can examples in Wow for just about all scenery in Avatar.

I though she should make a clip to prove this but of course someone had the same idea and already did so. I found this clip on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dktTFfBOF8o

and another one in 3D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPifVYBAVFA

(Unfortunately neither made a side-by-side comparison.)

When I started to search the web to read more about this I was surprised to find accusations that Pandora would resemble Halo instead.

http://kotaku.com/5446694/cameron-calls-firsties-in-halo+avatar-comparisons

Amusingly, James Cameron rejects these criticisms, claiming Halo was actually inspired by the style of Aliens, which he created.

I've never played Halo but as far as I know both universes, I thought WoW showed much closer resemble so I wondered if this was perhaps a case of overzealous Xbox360 fanbois.

When I checked YouTube however I came across this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlGVlx40_C8

My conclusion: both sides may be right, but those making comparisons between WoW and Pandora are talking about the world of the Na'vi while those who see parallels with Halo are talking about the human colony and invasion army.

By the way, at times during the movie I thought the score used was Adiemus, which would seem quite appropriate but it turned out to be something else.
Speaking of which: too bad onkly Adiemus' first album was released on SACD, and only in stereo. I'd love to hear them in multichannel, especially the second album.
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to say both sides are pretty full of it. All the human machinery on Pandora is pretty clearly derivative of designs Cameron used in Aliens (dropship, loader Ripley used to fight the queen, etc.), which in turn are similar to some the the hunterkiller stuff he had in the first Terminator, so I give him full benefit of the doubt on that.

As far as the Jungle or the Na'vi aspects of Pandora, I don't see anything there either. To some extent, any jungle that is all earth-like is going to resemble another, but I haven't seen anything in WoW that mirrors the things that are fairly unique to Avatar, like the huge home tree or the floating mountains. But even those are well worn sci-fi icons, and certainly have been around since before there were even computers to contemplate MMORPGs like WoW.

Now if you want to see an actual likely source for Cameron's concepts of the planetary network and consciousness probably came from, check out the book Midworld by Alan Dean Foster. Written 35 years ago when Cameron was a young sci-fi devouring reader (like myself), I dug it out and reread it last weekend. No question in my mind he probably read it at some point as well, and sublimated some of the ideas. The natives have a home tree which is a giant thing which they protect and have a symbiotic relationship with. They have the same reverence for the life around them, killing only when needed. They form a lifetime bond with one type of the hexapodal animals of the planet, their bodies are given to a rare type of tree which adds their consciousness to its own, etc.

There are a few radical departures, the natives are descended from humans marooned on the world some few hundred years before, and are shorter rather than taller than humans. But major concepts about the world are strikingly parallel. The Na'vi are also pretty plainly just based on the more mythic interpretations of the American natives.

I don't think Cameron "copied" these aspects or anything else about the movie, though. He has gone through a ton of others' works in his life, and the very nature of creativity is to build on and interpret things you have been subject to and experienced. One of the reasons the current land grab for intellectual property rights is so disturbing.

I also have to laugh at the complaints that the film is a thinly veneered version of Pocahontas or Dancing with Wolves. NOt because they are wrong, but rather, "so what?". If the heroine's name had been Pocahontas, so that it was plainly more an adaptation of that story, would they then complain? The love that crosses boundaries is a pretty old story archetype, and Pocahontas wasn't nearly the first incarnation of it.

How I tend to characterize this movie is like this: The studio gave Cameron half a billion dollars. They felt it was a good gamble given his history, but this is a movie studio. So their tendency to check off the normal selling points probably was not negotiable - love interest, conflict, sexy aliens, fantastic world, happy ending. I imagine Cameron had to work within some constraints to get this thing made. And studios' risk management constraints are what lead to the formulaic movies that are most of what comes out of this town. I think Avatar is pretty amazing for what it accomplished within those constraints.

So back on topic, if the anyone from the Halo and WoW crowds want to claim derivation, give me something from either of those you think is original, and I'll find you a good scifi or fantasy novel or 3 where it was used decades before.
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Yuri



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brandon B wrote:
I haven't seen anything in WoW that mirrors the things that are fairly unique to Avatar, like the huge home tree or the floating mountains.

They are there. You can see them in the YouTube video I referred to.

Quote:
Now if you want to see an actual likely source for Cameron's concepts of the planetary network and consciousness probably came from, check out the book Midworld by Alan Dean Foster.

From the description I've read it sounds too similar indeed to be coincidental.

Quote:
if the anyone from the Halo and WoW crowds want to claim derivation, give me something from either of those you think is original, and I'll find you a good scifi or fantasy novel or 3 where it was used decades before.

I'm sure you're right there. After many decades of science fiction it's become rather difficult to be original in this area. Then again, as they say where I live: Better well nicked than ill-conceived Mr. Green
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuri wrote:

They are there. You can see them in the YouTube video I referred to.


I watched the first third or so, but sort of skimmed the rest. Must have missed them.
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