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Format wars? PS3 vs Xbox360, BD vs HD-DVD, SACD vs DVD-Audio
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Format wars? PS3 vs Xbox360, BD vs HD-DVD, SACD vs DVD-Audio Reply with quote

I'm not waiting for this to happen but given the position of Microsoft against Sony in the console arena, pitting Xbox360 against PlayStation3 and supporting HD-DVD against Blu-ray Disc, wouldn't the logical thing to do for Microsoft be adding DVD-Audio support to Xbox360 to compete with Super Audio CD on PS3?
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Broadwing



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Format wars? PS3 vs Xbox360, BD vs HD-DVD, SACD vs DVD-A Reply with quote

The Seventh Taylor wrote:
I'm not waiting for this to happen but given the position of Microsoft against Sony in the console arena, pitting Xbox360 against PlayStation3 and supporting HD-DVD against Blu-ray Disc, wouldn't the logical thing to do for Microsoft be adding DVD-Audio support to Xbox360 to compete with Super Audio CD on PS3?


Two reasons:
- They don't have a vested interest in the format, unlike HD-DVD, or Sony and SA-CD.
- Lack of HDMI out on the 360 until recent times.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Format wars? PS3 vs Xbox360, BD vs HD-DVD, SACD vs DVD-A Reply with quote

Broadwing wrote:
They don't have a vested interest in the format, unlike HD-DVD, or Sony and SA-CD.


True, but they could obtain one. After all, they even acquired Pacific Microsonics, the company behind the HDCD format, a couple of years ago.
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buckshot



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reason microsoft supports hd dvd in the format war is because they want to see physical media for movies disappear. so they support the weaker movie format to confuse people and spread apathy. music has gone download already and the whole dvd-a and sacd fight has already killed consumer interest for the most part. so they see no reason to join. besides they're having enough trouble getting people to care about their zune contraption.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting theory!
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd put it somewhat past theory, into the range of fact.
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACtually, the theory is incorrect. The correct theory is that Sony are fighting against Microsoft in the console arena. For Microsoft to have backed Blu Ray would have giventhe PS3 more legitimacy amongs those who were choosing between PS3 and 360 for a console, especially those who were considering which HD format to choose.
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buckshot



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

except microsoft has already stated that they want physical media to do bye bye. if they truly supported hd dvd they would have made their games on it as opposed to old school dvds. they support confusion of the consumer, not hd dvd. even though these companies are fighting it out in the console wars doesn't mean they don't play nice elsewhere. vaios still use windows for instance. but as far as music goes; a lot of people see the times of physical copies of albums as already passed. so m$ already sees the battle to take music online as won. microsofts utlimate goal is to control every facet of our electronic entertainment. so whatever they can do to achieve that they will do. that's why they will bleed money endlessly on things like the xbox (huge money loser), zune, and hd dvd (subsidies to keep prices down).
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with most of that, except that M$ (as you call them) do not release games on HD-DVD because the vast majority of 360 owners do not possess one. And after all, how many games actually need to be on HD-DVD?

The other thing is, VAIOs are released with Windows because well over 90% of the buyers would want that, being as it is, the best OS (in the opinion of the vast majority of consumers) on the market. To develope an OS from scratch for VAIOs is just plain crazy because most software is designed for Windows.

So what I am saying is that Microsoft DO want to have downloadable material only, but that is the ultimate aim. For now, they are happy backign HD-DVD because they know that at least one mor egeneration of machines will need a HD disc medium (because internet speeds are not fast enoguh for HD content download), so for them it was either Blu Ray or HD-DVD. They obviously couldn't back Blu Ray for the console-related reason given by me previously. So of course it had to be HD-DVD. I mean, could you imagine them developing authoring software for Blu Ray.....for the console that was goign to be the 360's nemesis?
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buckshot



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good points. did I say m$ puts games on hd? didn't mean to. the games are heavily restricted on dvd. heck heavenly sword had what 8 gbs of audio?!?!? try fitting that with the rest of the game on a dvd. there are numerous reports of games that will not be available on 360 in the next few years because of their storage issues. rockstars new la noir game comes to mind.
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dieroboter



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these theories about Microsoft focusing on downloadable contents are absolutely right. Next week they open the online video service in Europe, releasing movies in SD and HD, besides the new support for IPTV, DivX, etc...

Michael Bay also thinks in that same direction, as you can read here

Let's see how this stupid war will end. Maybe Sony is finally achieving a winner format...? Rolling Eyes hehe
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckshot wrote:
good points. did I say m$ puts games on hd? didn't mean to. the games are heavily restricted on dvd. heck heavenly sword had what 8 gbs of audio?!?!? try fitting that with the rest of the game on a dvd. there are numerous reports of games that will not be available on 360 in the next few years because of their storage issues. rockstars new la noir game comes to mind.


No you didn't say 360 games come on HD-DVD. I was just putting forward my theory why. Smile

I think we are all agreed that downloadable content is the future, just not in this generation. Well, cetainly not HD movies, and absolutely NOT streamed.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'theory' is actually supported in high circles, as proven by this article:

Quote:
Transformers director blames MS for HD DVD/Blu-ray format war

By Tony Smith
6th December 2007 11:03 GMT


Movie director Michael Bay has claimed that Microsoft is responsible for the HD DVD vs Blu-ray Disc format war, which he alleges is the Beast of Redmond's attempt to kill off physical formats and get everyone downloading instead.

Here's Bay's comment, posted in a forum on his official website:

"What you don't understand is corporate politics," he writes. "Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out 100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."

We should point out that the payment of "$100m checks" is something Microsoft has denied - we only have the word of two anonymous Viacom executives that it did.

Back to Bay. His allegation is that Microsoft is essentially backing the weaker format to hinder the success of the other, thus preventing both from taking off in the way the studios and the likes of Sony and Toshiba hope. Microsoft is in the business of selling content downloads, so it's no great surprise that it might prefer physical HD media to fail.

But would it back one format to make that happen? Bay's argument assumes Blu-ray is the best format, pure and simple, and that HD DVD wouldn't get a look in without Microsoft's money. That ignores the backing the format has had not only from its main developer, Toshiba, but also major tech companies like Intel and HP, so the format's going to be promoted no matter how much cash Microsoft spreads around (allegedly).

And HD DVD isn't the poor relative of BD. Plenty of myths have emerged about the benefits of both formats, but technically they're not so very different. BD has the capacity advantage, while HD DVD has the benefit of being associated with a very strong brand: DVD.

HD DVDs are cheaper to make than BDs, but this is a red herring. First, disc manufacturers still need to adapt DVD production lines and that isn't cheap. It's not like they flick a switch and a production line starts churning out HD DVDs instead of DVDs.

BD requires a bigger equipment outlay, true, but no greater - allowing for inflation, modern capacity requirements and so on - than the cost of building DVD pressing plants in the first place, and manufacturers will always need to upgrade disc production lines, to replace older, inefficient machinery and to boost capacity. They'll be buying new equipment no matter what. The need to remain competitive will ensure they can handle multiple formats, the cost of the pricier ones being covered by sales of less expensive media.

BD's data-storage layer is closer to the surface than HD DVD's is, but it's not yet certain the format is any less resilient than its rival is. Special coatings minimise damage and - frankly - if you can't look after your discs, of whatever format they are, it serves you right if they get scratched. Don't want damaged discs? Don't let your kids mess with them.

BD does suffer from incomplete standard syndrome. HD DVD isn't entirely immune - if Toshiba's proposed 51GB disc goes mainstream, most of today's players won't be able to handle them - but the specification can be relied on more than BD's can.

These are the real issues hindering consumer take-up, and they're all a the result of both formats' immaturity. So are high disc prices and uncertainties over whether discs will play properly, as even Toshiba admits.

To make matters worse, neither format provides as much a leap above DVD that that format offered over VHS, so it's going to be some time, if ever, that they become the mainstream choice, even if World+Dog has a 1080p flat-panel TV.

By which time, of course, we will be downloading movies. Actually, rather a lot of people are doing so already, albeit illegally. The bandwidth is there and it's increasing, and more and more movie rental services are offering downloads.

It's not hard to envisage a world, not so very far off, where the vast majority of consumers, all of them casual viewers, get movies from video-on-demand services, whether they're download-based or delivered through a set-top box - only a small step up for the satellite and cable TV companies, some of whom are doing it already.

That leaves physical media to devotees - a specialist market. And as online catalogues expand, even these guys may find they can watch what they want, when they want as easily by download or VoD as they can buy buying a disc. No special features with a download? True, but while plenty of people do make sure they try out all the extras, we'd bet that the vast majority of viewers don't.

So mass-market movie downloading is coming, no matter what happens in the HD disc format war. Microsoft doesn't have to spend a cent to ensure such an outcome - all it has to do is wait and gather content.
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Jens



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a similar article here:

Quote:
Michael Bay on Microsoft's "dirty secret"

Mark Androvich 19:05 (BST) 05/12/2007

Thinks company is purposely promoting confusion

Film director Michael Bay believes that Microsoft is promoting confusion in the HD format war in order to usher in digital downloads.

"Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads," he said in a forum post on his Web site.

In August, Bay posted an angry response to the news that Paramount had decided to release his Transformers film exclusively on HD DVD, threatening not to deliver a Transformers sequel - a threat he later retracted.

Shortly thereafter, it was revealed that Paramount received a rumoured USD 150 million incentive from HD DVD promoters to make the switch.

The director of films such as Armageddon and Bad Boys said that corporate politics are involved.

"That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out 100 million dollar checks to studios just [to] embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, superior Blu-ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital download.

"Time will tell and you will see the truth."
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, pur-lease. Conspiracy theories from a Director of fantasy films? Shock, horror. He was peed off and he put forward a theory. I notice he soon backed down on his emotions, after he'd thoguht about it a bit. Blu Ray has hit my Sainsburys Savacentre. This means that they are mainstream. Watch next year when the prices drop to aroudn a tenner. With the 3 for 2 deals aroudn at Virgin, Play, HMV, etc, Blu Rays of new films can be had for teh same price as the equivalent DVD's.

Plus, PS3 is taking off.

So downloads will have to wait. That is the reality, no matter the theories.
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