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First PC with SACD support?

 
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PS3SACD
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 316

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: First PC with SACD support? Reply with quote

There have been PCs with a form of DSD support (encoding, playback) for several years; see the SACD FAQ, 'Can I play SA-CDs on my PC?' (note to self: must update this section).

For the first time now, Sony has released a PC that supports SACD. See the coverage on our home page. The press release however leaves us with more questions than answers.

Quote:
This can handle Super Audio CD (SA-CD), allowing the JS1 to record, edit and play music at SA-CD quality, and even upgrade older recordings to the new standard.

Sound Reality can up-convert conventional CD-quality music into uncompressed Direct Stream Digital (DSD) format. Using the pre-installed SonicStage Mastering Studio software, the DSD signal can be re-mastered into 5.1 Super Audio CD, revitalising the original.


This raises various questions:
  • There's no such thing as a SACD-R, at least not available to consumers. There is the DSD Disc which you can record on DVD±R (see our DSD Disc guide) and play on some PCs and any PS3 but this format supports stereo DSD only. Does the DSD Disc format support 5.1-channel audio now? Or can the 5.1 signal be recorded on HDD only, creating some kind of 'virtual SACD'?
  • The spec mentions "Optical: DVD±RW/±R DL/RAM". Can these formats only be read or also written?
  • The PR pictures show a BD-R disc in the drive. So is it a Blu-ray Disc drive? Is it even a BD writer?

Whatever the case, this PC is a very exciting development and great proof that SACD continues to gain traction within Sony's divisions. We look forward to seeing more VAIO PCs with this technology and perhaps even CE devices based on this drive.

If Sony responds to our queries we'll let you know here.
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dvdasacd



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for finding this news! I'm very excited, and quite simply, amazed at this significant milestone. Another indication that Sony are not giving up on the format, which is nice news indeed!

IMO Sony should be allowing and licensing other manufacturers to put DXD/DSD128/DSD64 chips and SACD-playing drives in their PCs and laptops. I'm not exactly holding my breath though...they still have DSD fenced within the Vaio world (despite the existence of several DSD-capable sound cards such as Auzentech X-FI Prelude and Asus HDAV1.3).

It's not 100% clear in the press release whether the JS1 can actually play back commercial SACDs. I hope it's not just a new home-made 5.1ch DSD Disc format rebranded as "SACD".
Fingers crossed.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's amazing indeed. In the last two or three years we've come to see
  • the DSD Disc format
  • DSD Direct Player software for PCs
  • 'prosumer' DSD recorders (not from Sony, remarkably)
  • SACD-compatible PlayStation3
  • the first car SACD player
  • the first SACD-compatible PC and perhaps a CD/SACD/DVD/BD reader * writer drive
and all this while the SACD format will be ten years old next year.

I also hope they're not going to create confusion between SACD and DSD Disc but the prospect of a high-res 5.1-channel recording format sounds exciting.
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PS3SACD
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not intending to spoil the fun, but closer reading of the press release suggests the drive may not at all be able to handle SACD. This sentence refers to the processor:

Quote:
... audiophiles can take advantage of the special features offered by Sony’s Sound Reality signal processor chip built into the system.

This can handle Super Audio CD (SA-CD), allowing the JS1 to record, edit and play music at SA-CD quality...


Also note how this product page on the Sony UK site makes no mention of SACD whatsoever.

Let's wait for Sony's reply. Still, the 5.1-channel DSD recording would be an interesting step forward.
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS3SACD wrote:
Not intending to spoil the fun, but closer reading of the press release suggests the drive may not at all be able to handle SACD. This sentence refers to the processor:

Quote:
... audiophiles can take advantage of the special features offered by Sony’s Sound Reality signal processor chip built into the system.

This can handle Super Audio CD (SA-CD), allowing the JS1 to record, edit and play music at SA-CD quality...


Also note how this product page on the Sony UK site makes no mention of SACD whatsoever.

Let's wait for Sony's reply. Still, the 5.1-channel DSD recording would be an interesting step forward.


I don't think this is a SACD drive. But you can make SACD-quality and spec music, but will be written on DVD disc?????? If so, is this a milestone, i.e. SACD-liek DSD signal but DVD disk??? (As opposed to 2-channel DSD on CD).
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PS3SACD
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it turns out, the PC cannot play SACDs at all. It comes with SonicStage Mastering Studio so it can handle DSD but only in stereo, not 5.1. The people who wrote the press release must have been confused.

We'll add a note on the news page. Now the only question left is whether the optical drive is a DVD or a BD writer (or reader).
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dvdasacd



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopes dashed. Expectations gone. Dreams extinguished.

Oh well, it was fun while the possibility was there.

Still, DSD recording is pretty cool as is DSD disc. I wish they could go to 5.1ch though.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so too. I wonder what's holding them back -- technical issues, market considerations or 'political' concerns.
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IS there a way to take a 5.1 or even a 2.0 PCM signal (e.g. SACD played back on PS3 and spat out via HDMI) and record it onto a disk, or into a file playable on the PS3?
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dvdasacd



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Seventh Taylor wrote:
I think so too. I wonder what's holding them back -- technical issues, market considerations or 'political' concerns.

Technical issues - not at all.
Market considerations - of course not, SACD support in millions of computers would be advantageous for the format.
Political concerns - yep, it's that one...I thought they finally saw the light but they must be SO staid on their position that SACD must not be copied on computers like CD can, that they will stillnot risk it, after all these years.

IMO it's stupid...I would love to be able to rip my SACDs to DSD and play it back on a "DSD media server" - how cool would that be. Maybe it would get a lot more people interested in DSD in general.
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mister_playboy



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvdasacd wrote:
Political concerns - yep, it's that one...I thought they finally saw the light but they must be SO staid on their position that SACD must not be copied on computers like CD can, that they will stillnot risk it, after all these years.

IMO it's stupid...I would love to be able to rip my SACDs to DSD and play it back on a "DSD media server" - how cool would that be. Maybe it would get a lot more people interested in DSD in general.


I think it's quite obvious by this point that this reactionary strategy has done little but insure a very, very small market for SACD.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I meant the 5.1-channel DSD Disc format, not SACD playback on PCs -- that would be great too, perhaps even greater -- but the questions and answers are basically the same.

Thinking of this, it's probably even less likely we'll see both, because that would make it too easy and obvious to copy SACDs...

As for market concerns, SACD playback on millions of PS3s should have been extremely beneficial to the format yet I can't avoid the impression it has done relatively little.
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to be able to buy SACDs where PS3 owners shop. I would, however, bet that PS3 ownership HAS helped SACD. I have seen online at places like Blu-Ray.com at least 20 people become interested in SACD. Anecdotal, yes, but I imagine that translates into some net bump, even if it is like 1%.

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