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HD-AAC
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: HD-AAC Reply with quote

Interesting development:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS166619+07-Jan-2008+BW20080107

Hopefully this takes hold. Offering hi-rez audio files online has a better chance to survive what seems to be the inevitable niche status high quality audio ends up in than SACD has shown. And it's almost certainly something that could be added in a PS3 firmware update.

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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting indeed.

Now one can wonder whether this has any more chance of attracting a larger audience than the niche that is SACD/DVD-Audio but at least it meets the need for the convenience of downloading that appears to have become expected. I believe MP3 Pro came from the same lab and that still hasn't put much of a dent in the overall download market, I believe.

Some will also debate whether this was needed to achieve high quality in the first place: With the exponential growth of storage capacity a HDD-equipped audio player can easily store dozens of hours of losslessly compressed PCM or even DSD.

The article makes no mention of surround sound though. Then again we've got MP3 Surround from the same family tree. That makes me wonder whether we'll see a 'battle' between HD-AAC and MP3 Surround for capturing the two different main benefits of SACD and DVD-Audio but I doubt it. MP3 Surround has been out for over a year and failed to make much impact thus far. Probably because of the lack of source material. I have not heard of any SACD ripping software and I don't expect we will while the format remains uncracked. Does such a thing exist for DVD-Audio? If so, perhaps it will soon have two options: rip to MP3 Surround and rip to HD-AAC -- until somebody realizes we need a format that supports both high resolution and surround sound. HD-AAC Surround, anyone?

For more about MP3 Surround see http://www.all4mp3.com/

This also makes me wornder when (if ever) we'll see an MP3 Surround decoder for PS3 -- and an HD-AAC decoder.
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Seventh Taylor wrote:
Some will also debate whether this was needed to achieve high quality in the first place: With the exponential growth of storage capacity a HDD-equipped audio player can easily store dozens of hours of losslessly compressed PCM or even DSD.


Well, going by their quote:

"The HD-AAC encoding process preserves every bit of information
contained in the uncompressed original music track while offering
state-of-the-art lossless compression rates, comparable or superior to
other lossless formats"

I think the idea is that it A) is a more efficient lossless codec and so gives advantages not only for storage, but also for streaming and network transport of other types (online sales, loading up your iPod, etc.), and B) preserves compatibility with the AAC iPod ecosystem already out there.

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D-Mode 5.1



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This blog entry http://futuremusic.com/blog/?p=2273 declares the new format Dead On Arrival.

Frankly I can't say I disagree entirely.
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Jens



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the impression Apple is all into HD video downloads via iTunes but doesn't say a word about high-resolution audio. All the HD-AAC coverage appears to have been generated by the Fraunhofer Institute around CES, without a mention of it at the Macworld conference.

On a different note, I've read suggestions that the HD-DVD/Blu-ray Disc stalemate was resolved simply because the industry had to get their act on high-definiton movie distribution together if they didn't want to lose out to Apple, whose Apple TV take 2 announcement was imminent.
An interesting explanation though I'm not sure what to make of it. They're in on that deal too (Apple couldn't do it without them, could they?) so they stand to gain either way.
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hidef disc media and Apple's offerings are pretty separate markets. Their "HD" movies are 4GB 720p files. Compare that to a 15-40GB full 1080p file on a BD or HD-DVD. No comparison. I am willing to be that a good quality DVD upscaled WILL look as good as the Apple HD rentals, unlike the oft repeated meme about DVD and HD discs.

Nonetheless, in spite of that and my expanding blu-ray collection, I will be buying an aTV and partaking of their rentals.

Of course, I am not the mainstream consumer, my setup makes the price of a BD well worth it, and I tend to buy movies in lieu of going to the crappy mall multiplex in my city.

So for the rental market, that may be a valid point.
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Mode 5.1 wrote:
This blog entry http://futuremusic.com/blog/?p=2273 declares the new format Dead On Arrival.

Frankly I can't say I disagree entirely.


Yeah, my guess would be the same, just my hopes lean in the other direction.

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Superman



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Metropolis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Seventh Taylor wrote:


I have not heard of any SACD ripping software and I don't expect we will while the format remains uncracked. Does such a thing exist for DVD-Audio?


SACD's protection schemes were never cracked and hence can't be ripped. Sony was very smart to keep SACD away from computer playback. DVD-Audio has been cracked.
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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This news item writes about AppleTV movie downloads:

Quote:
Apple has sold 7 million movies, and that number has been more or less deemed a failure. However thatís a million more than the six million Blu-Ray Discs sold as of the end 2007 according to Home Media Research, which beat HD-DVD by a near 2-to-1 margin and iTunes Movies hit the 7 million mark after 15 months, beating the 18 months it took Blu-Ray out hit the six million mark.


Indeed that's not a major success for movie downloading. Imagine iTunes downloads only barely managed to beat SACD and DVD-Audio purchases. What a different world this would be. And these downloads weren't even the HD versions which are only becoming available now.
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md47



Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not just support flac..?

it is beyond me as to why the ps3 (and the psp) cant read the oggvorbis library, and the lamemp3 header (which allows for true gapless playback)...

what seems so obvious to me seems to be lost on sony - it isnt about how snazzy the codec is, it is about how many people use it. rather than reinvent the wheel, support the open codecs that are already out there...
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Brandon B



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HD AAC has nothing to do with Sony, and they are not supporting it. What is nice about it is it could be added to new devices and it would automatically continue support with the existing AAC format, while adding hi fidelity capability.

As to why it can read FLAC or Ogg, as you say, not enough people to make it worth their while. It is simply not a mainstream consumer format.

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The Seventh Taylor



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sound On Sound magazine last month had an article about surround sound music distribution via the internet by means of MP3 Surround:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/mp3surround.htm
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that the surround sound (high-res) MP3 system is a different codec to the existing one, meaning many current players including the PS3 will nto be able to deocde (at present).
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PS3SACD
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 316

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that's right. I downloaded some of the sample tracks and could play them on PS3 -- as stereo. That's how it's encoded: a regular MP3 decoder will only see the stereo data so you've got graceful degradation.

Will post something about this in the FAQ shortly.
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FunkyMonkey



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS3SACD wrote:
I don't believe that's right. I downloaded some of the sample tracks and could play them on PS3 -- as stereo. That's how it's encoded: a regular MP3 decoder will only see the stereo data so you've got graceful degradation.

Will post something about this in the FAQ shortly.


Ok, I amend my assertion to say that the multi-channel data is unattainable on a regular MP3 player. ALso, isn't there a limit to resolution on regular MP3 players??? I'm guessign 320kps as that seems to be classed as "high quality", and certainyl highest quality that PS3 can rip.
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