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Jens
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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There are some threads on other forums, notably here on GearSlutz about a supposed deficiency on certain Sony, Denon and Oppo SACD players that could be beneficial to some. Reportedly, these players omit verification of the PSP signal, allowing one to play SACD images off blank DVDs. Much like DSD Disc format, except none of these players supports DSD Disc.
The original poster refers to them as SACD-R though that suggest you could copy an SACD onto a DVD but getting the SACD data hasn't been done yet. It's a bit like a poor man's DSD Disc, though I guess if this works which one you use just depends on which player you've got.
In theory this alternative format could even handle multichannel DSD/DST but how would you get that when none of the available DSD recorders support that?
Anyway, I don't own any of the players listed but am curious whether anyone has been able to verify the claim. Does it really work?
PS: There's also a thread on sa-cd.net but that contains less info and has been closed. |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Jens wrote: | | There's also a thread on sa-cd.net but that ... has been closed. |
Yes, I noticed, and it's just silly because this isn't a threat to SACD security any more than DSD Disc format is. If SACD were hacked it would be a different story but this apparent phenomenon just doesn't address that. |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Jens wrote: | | It's a bit like a poor man's DSD Disc |
To me, the DSD Disc has no alternative because:
1. It can be multichannel (despite the specification provided on this site);
2. It can be played back on any PS3 models (including slim)
Just use DVD DL to burn the disc. |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | | the DSD Disc ... can be multichannel (despite the specification provided on this site) |
Yes, that's come as quite of a surprise. I can only guess they didn't foresee that use because
- there were and are no consumer DST encoders
- they did not expect SACD to be hacked.
Frankly, I didn't either. In the above post of mine of less than half a year ago, I wrote: | Quote: | | If SACD were hacked it... |
Well... now that's exactly what's happened, more than 10 years after introduction!
| Quote: | | Just use DVD DL to burn the disc. |
I haven't followed all threads elsehwere on this topic. Exactly how does this make a difference? |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Quote: | | I haven't followed all threads elsehwere on this topic. Exactly how does this make a difference? |
Me too.. But I burned a number of multichannel DSD Discs and found that they sound exactly the same as their SACD originals. Due to lack of DST compression a higher capacity DVD are needed (8.5GB).
The process is simple:
1. Use scarletbook.exe to extract multi-ch DSF from SACD-R ISO;
2. Use DSD Disc structure and DDP file syntax to prepare DSD_DISC folder;
3. Burn the folder on DVD DL (or SL if sufficient)
It should be noted that DSF file tagging (including album thumbnail) is available using Audiogate for stereo files only. Hence I new tagging tool is needed for development of nice looking DSD Discs. Hope this one will be developed soon. I count on you guys! |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | | Due to lack of DST compression a higher capacity DVD are needed (8.5GB). |
You mean the DST gets decompressed to DSD in the ripping process? It's not output 'transparently' as DST? |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Quote: | | You mean the DST gets decompressed to DSD in the ripping process? It's not output 'transparently' as DST? |
Exactly. DST is decompressed to DSD (DSF). I don't feel the difference between the original (DST) and the copy (DSF). |
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The Seventh Taylor
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | | DST is decompressed to DSD (DSF). I don't feel the difference between the original (DST) and the copy (DSF). |
Well, obviously, I should say. The compression is lossless. |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Quote: |
Well, obviously, I should say. The compression is lossless. |
I know what you mean.. e.g. despite the lossless compression DVD-A 5.1 LPCM 48/24 sounds more "transparrent" on my Pioneer 600 if compared to 5.1 PPCM 48/24. This is not the case for PS3 which decodes DSTs well and sounds better than Sony BDP-370. |
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hardlok
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | | Quote: | | I haven't followed all threads elsehwere on this topic. Exactly how does this make a difference? |
Me too.. But I burned a number of multichannel DSD Discs and found that they sound exactly the same as their SACD originals. Due to lack of DST compression a higher capacity DVD are needed (8.5GB).
The process is simple:
1. Use scarletbook.exe to extract multi-ch DSF from SACD-R ISO;
2. Use DSD Disc structure and DDP file syntax to prepare DSD_DISC folder;
3. Burn the folder on DVD DL (or SL if sufficient)
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Hi Anatolio
If I read you correctly, you managed to make a DSD disc with mch tracks ripped to DSF format from a mch SACD? The DSF specification is Stereo Only, yet the PS3 can play the mch DSF format? I know SACD-ripper can rip to mch DSF, but I am interested to create mch DSF from non SACD-sources, such as DVD-A.
Do you know of any way to convert standard mch DSD files to mch DSF (ie, mch DSD files not directly obtained from mch SACDs using scarletbook). I am hoping to create mch DSF files from mch Wav files ripped from DVD-A, you see 
Hope you can share you experience with mch DSF here. Thanks! |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Quote: |
Hi Anatolio
If I read you correctly, you managed to make a DSD disc with mch tracks ripped to DSF format from a mch SACD? The DSF specification is Stereo Only, yet the PS3 can play the mch DSF format? I know SACD-ripper can rip to mch DSF, but I am interested to create mch DSF from non SACD-sources, such as DVD-A.
Do you know of any way to convert standard mch DSD files to mch DSF (ie, mch DSD files not directly obtained from mch SACDs using scarletbook). I am hoping to create mch DSF files from mch Wav files ripped from DVD-A, you see
Hope you can share you experience with mch DSF here. Thanks! |
It's amazing how different people are thinking about the same things! Afaik a tool for direct mch DFF to DSF conversion is not currently available. The long way is to create SACD-R.ISO first using SA-CD Creator and Saracon and then manually write a DSD_DISC folder after using scarletbook.exe for getting DSF files. In such a way you create both SACD-R iso and DSD Disc which can be easily shared 
Unfortunately, I don't have contacts of scarletbook.exe inventors. I believe that this application can be expanded to allow for direct DFF to DSF or even to DSD_DISC conversion. Hope those capable guys read this forum from time to time and consider this request.. |
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hardlok
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | It's amazing how different people are thinking about the same things! Afaik a tool for direct mch DFF to DSF conversion is not currently available. The long way is to create SACD-R.ISO first using SA-CD Creator and Saracon and then manually write a DSD_DISC folder after using scarletbook.exe for getting DSF files. In such a way you create both SACD-R iso and DSD Disc which can be easily shared
Unfortunately, I don't have contacts of scarletbook.exe inventors. I believe that this application can be expanded to allow for direct DFF to DSF or even to DSD_DISC conversion. Hope those capable guys read this forum from time to time and consider this request.. |
Heheh yes yes! Right after posting that message to you, I discovered that my homebrewed SACD-R can be read in sacd-ripper. So extracting the mch sections to mch dsf will be a no brainer. I suppose DST is not support in DSD Discs? Not particularly cheap to make 8.5GB DSD Discs.
Probably will stick to SACD-Rs for now.
Thanks again for your insights, Anatolio! |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Quote: |
I suppose DST is not support in DSD Discs? |
Alas! DST encoder does accept DSF files. |
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hardlok
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Alternative to DSD Disc? |
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| Anatolio wrote: | | Quote: |
I suppose DST is not support in DSD Discs? |
Alas! DST encoder does accept DSF files. |
Wow, if this is true, I'm making DSD disc out of a single layer DVD tonight! This is great! 
Thanks for setting me straight, Anatolio! |
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Anatolio
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for the typpo. DST encoder does NOT accept DSF files.
Anyway. I'm currently working on combined Stereo/Multi-ch DSD discs, a complete copy of SACD for PS3. |
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